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For a long time, weвЂ™ve had caffeine be legal. IвЂ™m curious as to your thoughts, Jonathan, on decriminalization versus legalization. ItвЂ™s hard, I think, to really think through what an effective addiction response strategy at the social level would be while weвЂ™re under an environment of prohibition, because prohibition does exacerbate some of those secondary effects of drugs, like, for example, addiction independence. So while I do think that legalizing drugs, which sounds like such a scary thing to a lot of people, really means bringing them under more regulatory control. and other actors, they have realized that, actually, having some sort of legally regulated system could be the way to reduce the violence in the country. And even Colombia now is having a very serious conversation at the governmental level about what it would look like to legally regulate cocaine, because - despite pressure from the U.S.

Engagement has not really ceased - not just with cocaine, but with a number of other drugs. My motherвЂ™s family is Colombian, and they left Colombia in the 1980s as a result in part of the massive increase in cocaine violence and cartel use. And I think that that whole conversation around legal access must also look at - and has looked at, historically - the uptake of all substances in illegal markets, and then the effects of those behaviors. Not having a legally regulated system puts us in a position where the very, very large and lucrative drug trade, which exists, whether or not thereвЂ™s a regulated industry, entirely is captured by underground actors with various levels of ethics and morals. I do think that legal, regulated access is likely the best environment for a number of drugs, but I think itвЂ™s going to depend very much on the substance itself, and factors that have to do with the supply and demand questions with respect to where and how itвЂ™s produced. Ismail, you do think that ultimately the goal would be to legalize all drugs.

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And I think legalization implies a full spectrum, regulated approach to the whole piece. So they get through all this illegal behavior to get to the legal behavior. But if every behavior up to that point is still illegal, you have an island of maybe legal or decriminalized behavior in a sea of illegal behavior. So you can decriminalize, for example, personal use and possession. And legalization tends to be when the law actually is fully recognizing, regulating activity from point A to point Z. So when people think of decriminalization, theyвЂ™re usually thinking of the reduction or elimination of criminal penalties, sometimes including civil penalties. I started out by asking Ismail to define the difference between drug decriminalization and legalization. Guyford Stever University Professor of Operations, Research, and Public Policy at Carnegie Mellon UniversityвЂ™s Heinz College, and a member of the National Academy of Engineering. Ismail Ali is the Policy and Advocacy Director at the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, and Jonathan P. But even hardcore drug policy reformers have vastly different takes on how we get to a better place with drugs, like our guests today. IвЂ™m Jane Coaston, and there seems to be more and more consensus that jailing our way out of the addiction crisis in the United States is not working. It seems like the War on Drugs is over and drugs won big. Several cities have recently decriminalized magic mushrooms, and Oregon just decriminalized possession of small amounts of all drugs, including heroin, methamphetamines, and cocaine. Connecticut just became the 18th state to legalize recreational marijuana. President Biden may not be ready for legalized, recreational marijuana, but many states are way ahead of him. And I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. Truth of the matter is, thereвЂ™s not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug. And in a matter of months, cannabis products could be available to those who qualify. Medical marijuana is now legal in Alabama. Last November, an overwhelming majority of Oregonians voted to decriminalize most drugs via referendum. Today on вЂњThe Argument,вЂќ is it time to legalize all drugs? archived recording Which Side Are You On? Should we decriminalize drugs, or legalize? Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 jane coaston

Transcript The WorldвЂ™s View on Drugs Is Changing.

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